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game socialist biased

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:47 pm
by matteodinosauro
maybe it's my fault, since I changed the name list of the political parties.

But why if I want to play as a conservative, and I pick a conservative/right wing party, why at the beginning socialist are in love with me (and are a big part of my electorate, se grey bar) whereas conservatives and capitalists donĂ t like me?

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:44 pm
by ChuckITA
Voters are influenced by policies no from party's name.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:58 am
by Rabid
I also find that this game seems to be trying to herd me into being a liberal socialist. Every time I want to play as Canada, the suggested name for me is "The Liberal Party" and the opposition "The Jehovah Party". Also, as you noticed, you start out being liked by socialists and liberals more than capitalists and conservatives, implying that you ran a left wing campaign and won.

I do think that the game could use a bit of a prologue phase, even if it just asks a few questions, like what did you emphasize in your criticism of the current government and what did you promise if elected. It also needs to do more to make your popularity with various groups have more to do with what you have changed than what the current situation is.

All that being said though, the policies that are favorable to capitalists do tend to provide good returns financially. Small business grants and enterprise investment scheme have never disappointed me.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:48 pm
by Phusa
Actually the game doesn't give you an option to run a socialist country at all. There are a few policies that are socialist (socialised housing, education, healthcare) but everything else is welfare capitalism. It might be very extreme welfare capitalism and sure you can make a social democracy but there's no way in the vanilla game to produce a society that resembles any socialist model.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:00 pm
by Ruzslava
Phusa wrote:Actually the game doesn't give you an option to run a socialist country at all. There are a few policies that are socialist (socialised housing, education, healthcare) but everything else is welfare capitalism. It might be very extreme welfare capitalism and sure you can make a social democracy but there's no way in the vanilla game to produce a society that resembles any socialist model.

I absolutely agree. I'm waiting for complex nationalization policies. Also imperialist policies. I can't really play as the USA if my military doesn't have the option to fuck over scores of other countries.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:21 pm
by Phusa
Given the limitations of the game the only types of socialism that could be modded in would be centralised state socialist models, which aren't very popular in modern socialist circles. But we can't expect the game to do everything. Policies that would enable forms of socialism would be socialised transport, banking, food, legal advocacy and utilities along with regulation of businesses with mandatory co-operatives. Then you might have something approaching a market socialist model.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:41 pm
by matteodinosauro
as phusa said, my concern is not about policies (and how citizens react to them), but the fact that you always start with lots of supports by socialsts and capitalist hating you. And it is much harder to get highly supported by the capitalists.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:09 am
by archaicwarrior
Too many ministers have socialist, unionist links and NONE republican (in Australia) and NONE capitalists !!! ???

AW

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:45 am
by deadmeat1471
I think the trivial queries here are silly but I do feel myself that the game is very very much easier to be played socialistic. IE heavy spending.

Being a massochist I love trying to create a libertarian paradise, however... my only successful strategy for right wing trolling around is to go completely socialist and eliminate poverty etc, then completely switch to libertarian wetdream but as everyone is already happy their satisfaction only drops to say 65%(also silly) until theyre all converted to capitalists by policies.

Now I'm an incredibly left wing leaning guy, so I don't say this out of political prejudice, but if this game is realistic in any way then all the policies of all the modern nations of the world are all completely false. As for libertarians? they're martians. The latter statement not being to far from reality however.

I would like to see more business involvement in politics and the economy and such factors as the fact business has its claws into the press and in political funding, and therefore can convince most of the nations of the west that whats good for business and bankers, is good for the rest of you. This is a crucial element that is missing, and in my mind a big contributor of the unrealism of the game.

The capitalist power structure and irrationality of voting hasn't been effectively simulated, only individual policies which people look at from a completely pragmatic view. Also, While I enjoy turning all of my country socialist or capitalist I think the power the leader has to 'convert' his citizens to an ideology is way to powerful, conversion should be reflected by propaganda(the press) and the success or general good benefit to the nation the policies provide, not a arbitrary labour law policy. A labour policy which infact works the reverse of how it would in reality, labour laws favoring business Are the reason socialists exist; to claw back some freedom for workers against power holding business owners, not a conversion tool for capitalists. It should make business more profitable and stable, not make it more popular, on the contrary.


Tl;Dr I think D3 propogates on the idea that people aren't as gullible and susceptible to propaganda as the reality and that business and politics and the press are completely divorced, when they are exactly the power structure that exists in a capitalist society and guides policy and politics.

/rant

I hope my comments have been constructive and I don't mean them to be harsh criticism of the game, I love positech and the democracy games.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:47 pm
by SANC
Libertarians favour small government , in this game you are the government. There's really not much else to point out.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:12 am
by deadmeat1471
SANC wrote:Libertarians favour small government , in this game you are the government. There's really not much else to point out.


^^

Lowering government spending and tax, is libertarian. Which you can do within the game. I don't think you understand :-) Maybe someone more knowledgeable can comment.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:19 am
by SANC
I know but in this game most of the things that affect libertarians one way or another are things they're against.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:27 am
by deadmeat1471
Ahh I understand now, but what I was trying to say is that very fact, that it's too easy to play socialistic. And while its entirely realistic to have most people hate having no healthcare or employment rights, it's not SO unpopular due to the propaganda and power structures existing in capitalist societies, as we live in that society every day and no one gets assassinated!

The glory of capitalism is the very fact that it has convinced the mass populous that banker bonuses, laissez faire capitalism et al, Benefit them equitably.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:20 am
by SANC
True.

Re: game socialist biased

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:43 pm
by mauporte
If someone was to include Mexico as a playable nation, it could prove a real challenge from a capitalistic/conservative/religious startpoint:

poverty, unemployment, bad social healthcare and school systems, organized crime, regressive tax policies, virtually no technology funding, high brain drain, extremely and unfair politicians' wages, fiscal frauds, press and food monopolies, low wages, high interest rates and currency debasement, uncompetitive and abused energetic sector, ruthless and powerful union leaders with little social responsability, and of course, extreme corruption.